Have you seen any success stories since there is, and the reason I ask is one of the compelling reasons to say preserve rainforest and all sorts of different ecosystems is for the medicinal value that might be contained. I want to mention a few things to underscore a few of the points that you made. Tim Ferriss: I want to second what you just said in the sense that much of my fascination and thinking on ethnobotany, which I’ll want you to define for us in a moment, comes from reading the work of Schultes. “Liliana and Mark recognized that the loss of the forest and the destruction of tribal culture were inextricably linked and that one could not thrive without the othe” — Skoll Foundation, “The White City.” “The City of the Monkey God.” “The Place of Cacao.” Rumors of a majestic city nestled in the remote rainforest of Honduras — referred to by all of these names — have circulated for centuries, wedging their way into Honduran national identity. It’s not, we don’t have the cure for it. But what I mean by that is in your field studies, we can go any direction you want, but in your field experiences, in whether it’s with the Trios in the northeast Amazon or elsewhere, maybe you could just walk us through your sort of exposure to this and the reception from your Western friends and colleagues. It can really do you harm. It’s not just hey, they use species A for headaches. Tim Ferriss: Yeah. It felt as if everyone had left in a hurry. And that is what percentage is, I know it’s a lame question, but what percentage of the use of hallucinogens specifically is focused on hunting, aspects of hunting or warfare, right? It gets used a lot. They were right. We need to worry about climate change.” But overpopulation is driving deforestation of the rainforest and deforestation of the rainforest, destruction of the rainforest is pouring carbon into the atmosphere. If you go to three doctors with one ailment, very seldom do you get the exact same recommendation in my experience. And you said, “I might have a few of those.” Certainly, based on what I know of you, based on our conversations, based on suggestions from friends who know you, I think we will have no shortage of ground to cover. But if we’re going to introduce technology, let’s do it in a way which supports the perpetuation of the culture rather than replaces it. Not just the medicinal plants, the old songs, the legends and things like that so it’s never lost. So some people, when they’re nervous, they get stomachaches or they get pimples or they can’t sleep.” He says, “What I need to do is put a shamanic patch over where the wound was. It’s not like sometimes the next species over will have the same compounds in it, completely different family. Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? And for some reason, the muscles of your forearm don’t have a lot of monition. Mark Plotkin: It’s really a good question for my colleague, Paul Cox, who’s a fellow ethnobotanist trained at Harvard around the same time I was and he was making great progress with some compounds from American Samoa antivirals, where the deal he cut, which is the way it should be done, where they would make a keystone payment. You take it at your own risk. (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration. Open Translation Project. I came back, but they kept saying, “This is a male aphrodisiac.” I got back to my office at a Harvard. And I’ll link to that in the show notes. I had dropped out of college and I was working in a museum and was looking for adventures, they say, and there was this one incredible graduate student who himself was sort of legendary. Critical is fine, but if you’re rude, we’ll delete your stuff. And I’ll give you an example of that. In your experience, have you seen any tribes who have been able to, without sort of destroying, setting fire to their own homes, metaphorically speaking, take some of this knowledge and monetize it for their benefit? So the value of these wild dolphins and electric eels and all the other cool things around the world only increases if we protect them and their oceans and coral reefs and rainforests and deserts in which they live. And he influenced people far and wide. Some of the most extraordinary people I’ve ever met are the Kogis. My arm doesn’t hurt. The answers aren’t completely in. Learn more about the Bad ethically, bad spiritually, but obviously perhaps worst of all, bad epidemiologically. People like Alan Ginsburg, great Schultes fans. Now the pain stopped almost instantaneously. It’s interesting; it’s a futuristic approach to a better understanding of the ancient world. Mark Plotkin: Yeah. So you may find different answers from other ethnobotanists. Could you speak to your thoughts on preventing pandemics — any policies or lessons that you think are worth underscoring? I wish I had a great success story to tell you about some tribe that made a billion dollars and saved the rainforest and lived happily ever after. And you recently just published a response dashboard, which is quite impressive. I know someone personally who — actually, I know multiple people who went down. It takes you to a different place. These are traditional secrets. These plants — and there are many different types of plants — are not limited to Peru. Mark Plotkin: Well, this is always a big debate in the academic community where people say, “You’re an Indiana Jones,” and “No, you’re not.” “No, I’m not Indiana Jones,” back and forth. Mark Plotkin: Well, people need to understand that the Amazon is full of different cultures. The Incan empire was to the south — it reached as far north as Ecuador — along with the Chibchans, who dominated much of pre-Columbian Colombia but are less well-known to the general public. Tim Ferriss: Are there any actions that you would like to see taken? Go deeper into fascinating topics with original video series from TED. But as long as the young people don’t learn it, we’re doomed. TED.com translations are made possible by volunteer This is one of very few places in the world where monkeys will come down from the canopy to have a look at you. Now, in terms of the pink dolphin of the Amazon, they just found a new species of pink dolphin. Whereas the shaman, in a sense, it’s kind of one-stop shopping. I don’t have to take us too far into the sort of encyclopedic list of these types of side effects, but you have to treat them very carefully. Tim Ferriss: Raises a lot of questions, doesn’t it? on Nov 24, 2014. Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Threw it in the pot and had me drink it. All rights reserved. Maybe you can tell me — pharmacopeia, pharmacopeia? So we need more help. A visit to a doctor at home had him feeling pain-free for a few months, but things changed when he headed to the Amazon rainforest for work. Honduras is a pretty dangerous place these days. It depends on what’s on your mind. I’ll give you an example. ‘You need a map.’ We didn’t even know what a map was. Now I don’t think that we’re ever going to see a healer where it’s going to be a woman using ayahuasca and antibiotics and Ayurvedic therapy and massage therapy. WHAT YOU’RE WELCOME TO DO: You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The New York Times, LA Times, The Guardian), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “The Tim Ferriss Show” and link back to the tim.blog/podcast URL. And tribal societies, women tend to have very little spare time compared to the men. And then if it gets to market, they get a piece of the action.”. Mark Plotkin: I have to report that was an exaggeration. Again, the point being, that these guys can’t cure everything. And clearly we need to work together. It’s my job. So I think that the timing couldn’t be better in a sense for supporting the communities from which a lot of these medicines came. That was about 13 years ago. There’s such a breadth of subject matter. You were my father’s friend. That doesn’t really tell you much. Now I find the yopo from the virola snuff to be very, very, very visual. We have one of the first books ever written by the Indians for the Indians in their language, documents all of their medicinal plant knowledge. You had all these great shamans. Photo: Dave Yoder/National Geographic. “When I saw that carving on the forest floor, it sent shivers down my spine,” he says. They’re going to need to be, as you put it, large tents, as we were talking before we started recording. But as I said, the Yanomami, were still doing some warfare, very limited amount. Tim Ferriss: Yeah. Who do you think lived in the city? Mark Plotkin of the Amazon Conservation Team (watch his TED Talk “What the people of the Amazon know that you don’t”) traveled to La Mosquitia, a remote region on eastern coast of Honduras, to be a part of this team. These people are still masters of the rainforest. You have done such great work in this respect, but how do you even hope to try to preserve that? I think species in general and conservation in general is an ethical exercise. And they showed me a plant that they said was a male aphrodisiac, different species, different genus, different family, except these guys were selling it in town. When you want to work with an ayahuasquero and he says, “Well, we have to do this in ceremony,” we do. I got what I needed. In 1526, the conquistador Hernán Cortés wrote to the Spanish Emperor about a place in the Honduran interior that was full of large cities and richer than Mexico. They don’t heal well on their own if you injure them a certain way. It was never like,” Hey, I hear he’s a great shaman. And I’m sure they take no joy in that, but this whole attitude towards monetizing everything, towards short-term thinking towards, me tooism is destroying the planet on which we live. Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Dr. Mark Plotkin (@DocMarkPlotkin), an ethnobotanist who serves as president of the Amazon Conservation Team, which has partnered with 55 tribes to map and improve management and protection of 80 million acres of ancestral rainforests. It’s not altogether rare, alternatively. They eat out of the same pot. Pretty amazing for a straight laced, Harvard professor. This is not a one off. Eureka. Completely different family.

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